Childless By Choice or Not, Fertility, and GYN Care: A Convo with Dr Amber Glenn

In this episode of the Birthing in Faith podcast, host Imani Fitch is joined by Dr. Amber Glenn, a dedicated OBGYN in Atlanta and the founder of Mountains Women’s Center. Dr. Glenn shares her journey as a women's health provider, speaks to the realities of being childless by choice & not by choice, and discusses the intersection of faith and modern medicine.

Connect with Dr. Amber Glenn:

• Mountains Women’s Center Website

Transcript

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This is cool. So we are recording. Hi everybody, my name is Imani Fitch. I am the owner of Confident Care Birth Co. And we are here with the Birthing in Faith podcast, a podcast for black Christian women. And my first lovely, lovely guest is Dr. Amber Glenn. And I just wanna say that I am honored to. have her here today. When I first met her, we were encouraged to meet and connect by a mutual friend at church. And when we did, it was like an immediate connection over good food, good conversation. Just, she's a beautiful spirit. And not only that, but she's an amazing OBGYN doing the Lord's work in these streets of Atlanta. So I am happy to introduce Ms. Dr. Amber Glenn. Thank you so much for having me, Imani. I am so happy to be here and I'm so excited for what the Lord is doing in you and through you with this podcast. And I can't wait to see what's coming. And we're gonna get into some juicy stuff today. Oh yes, I appreciate that and I'm excited too. I want the people to hear just what I've been hearing and I wanna know if you could share with us first. Just give us a little information about your background, what brought you into becoming an OBGYN and creating your own practice, Mountain Women's Center. Absolutely. So I am a board certified OBGYN. I haven't been in Georgia for long, only three years. I'm originally born and raised in Detroit, but I've been practicing OBGYN, obstetrics and gynecology for the last eight years. It is truly something I love to do. I love taking care of women and I think that I'm not only good at it. I think that God has uniquely gifted me to do so. I opened my own private practice, Mountains Women's Center in July of 2023. And at this point, we're five months in and we're so busy and I love it. I feel like I'm in my purpose. I have joy, I have satisfaction, and I just have the honor of taking care of all of these women, which I love to do, right? And I think when it comes to my profession, you know, as women, We take care of everybody around us, right? And that's one commonality amongst women. And, you know, to be able to take care of the person that takes care of everybody else, that's super important to me. Um, so that's my story. Um, I will say that what sets me apart from other physicians, um, I mean, I, I'm pro physician, right? I'm pro doctor, I'm pro healthcare industry, um, in an industry that is broken. I think that God can redeem anything. I love Jesus. And I think that he's the Great Physician and he allows me to compassionately and strategically care for. His daughters through his power. And, um, I don't take that lightly. Um, you know, I try to give the best care that I can. Um, I seek to provide spaces where women feel safe, where they feel heard and where they feel cared for. And you know, what's crazy, like my career and what I do professionally from day to day, it also ministers to me because I have this satisfaction of seeing women come back to me, I'll treat them and then they'll come back and say, hey doc, that really helped me or I'm feeling better or I'm bleeding less or I got pregnant. You helped me get pregnant. And in those situations, I'm like, dang God, you really be out here working. You know what I'm saying? You be out here working and you use medication, you can use surgery, you can use anything to bring about healing. And that's what I love so much about medicine, right? Is that as a believer, I can believe in Jesus, I can believe in God, but I can also believe that God through His grace can work through modern innovative remedies, even if it's medication, even if it's surgery, even if it's a procedure. That was a whole lot. I don't know if that answers your question. It definitely did. It definitely did. Yeah, I love that you said basically God is over the system and he uses the system even though it's a broken system. He has his soldiers and his people in it for his glory ultimately. And so whether it's a, you know, a surgery or a natural remedy, He gets the glory for all of it. I love that. I believe that. a little bit more about mountains though, specifically because you're an OBGYN, which for our listeners who may not know, that's short for obstetrics gynecology, and or gynecologist. And so the OB part is babies and birth, and then the gynecology part is just women's health, correct? Correct, absolutely, that's a great question. And I think it's good to make that clarity and that distinction. So I tell all my patients, obstetrics is baby stuff, okay? Gynecology includes women's health that doesn't include babies, okay? So I think over the last eight years, I've probably delivered thousands of babies. My practice, Mountains Women's Center, is specifically gynecology. So... I do a ton of annual exams, Pap smears. As a surgeon, I do a ton of hysterectomies, fibroid treatments. I do a lot of fertility care. I do fertility evaluations. I love menopause. I love hormonal imbalances. I do a lot of hormone therapy. I also manage a lot of anxiety and depression, like mental health. issues, PMDD, PMS symptoms, things that women struggle with from day to day. So that is my passion. Mountains Women's Center, like I said, we opened in July. We were very slow in the beginning, but now we're very busy, praise God. And you know, I had a patient the other day ask me, um, this is Atlanta. Why is it called mountains? You know, and to go. Eventually, I need to put something on the wall in the lobby or something. But the reason why it's called Mountains Women's Center is because after Psalm 121, one, which says, I look to the mountains, where does my help come from? My help comes from the Lord, the maker of heaven and earth. And, you know, I see women all day. And one thing that happens, it happens time and time again, is a woman will come in. Her blood pressure is really high. And she doesn't even have high blood pressure normally. And it's because when we walk into the OB GYN office as a woman, right? I'm a patient too. Remember, I'm not just a doctor. I'm a black woman. So I have to go see my OB GYN too. I get it. Right. And when we walk into an OB GYN office, there's a lot of anxiety. There's a lot of stress. Our blood pressure is high. Our heart rate is up. Most of us are anticipating bad news in some way. Mm-hmm or the bill we, or the bill, honey. Yes, that's true. That's very true. So we walk in with mountains in my opinion, right? And as a sidebar, I used to deliver, one of my favorite places in Georgia is the Georgia mountains. And I used to deliver babies up there. And I remember when I would go up there and I would be on call and I would stay in the mountains. It used to feel like, Um, it just used to feel sacred. Like it being in the mountains, I felt like this sense of peace and also like I was closer to God. And I remember telling my husband one day, I was like, man, this is why people in the Bible went into the mountains, right? It has to be this place where you feel closer to God. And I really, in some way, wanted the private practice to feel like that. I wanted people, I wanted women to walk in and for it to feel different in a good way. I wanted it to be a place of peace. Like when we think about mountains in the Bible, like there's all these scriptures that talk about Jesus going into the mountains to pray, right? And Mount Sinai, where God gave Moses the 10 commandments and like... Like the significance of mountains, I think as believers is, it's a sacred thing. Right? So, um, yeah, that was a long explanation to my patient the other day when she said, why is this called mountains when we in Atlanta? That's my vision anyway. Yeah, we need to know because it makes a difference. Like names are meaningful. So we need to hear the reason, you know, and I think it's a beautiful reason. And so with your practice, primarily focusing on, you know, GYN care, non-baby care. Do you see a difference in how women are treated when there's the care for women without children? When your focus is not on the baby, or maybe even the, what's that word? I guess the fertile years when you're approaching things from just the GYN side. What is your experience with how women without children are affected in their care? Yeah, I think that's a good question. I want to give a little bit of context to just fertility in the world of obstetrics and gynecology. So there's definitely an intersectionality there, right? Like as physicians, when we choose to become OB-GYNs, those two worlds are not separate for a reason. because they do impact each other. So even if a pregnant woman, if I'm taking care of a pregnant woman, that's a certain treatment plan, right? If I'm taking care of a non-pregnant woman, that's a certain treatment plan. But they both, whether you were pregnant last year or this year, it really impacts your health overall. And let me give a little more context. So as an OB-GYN, something that we always care about, is something called Gs and Ps, right? So G stands for gravida, which is Latin for how many times you've been pregnant in your life, okay? The P stands for para or parity, which basically is Latin for how many children you have, okay? So we call it the Gs and the Ps. You know this, as a former L&D nurse, everybody wants to know your Gs and Ps when you come to labor and delivery to have your baby. When you come see a gynecologist, we also want to know your G's and P's. I want to know how many times you've been pregnant in your life and how many children you have. And it's important because it actually has implications for your health and treatment plans, whether you're pregnant or not pregnant. So let's do a scenario. Let's do a scenario of what this looks like in the office, because I think that's helpful for listeners. Play it out for us. Yes, and I also think it goes to show, I think the example I'm gonna give is also going to kind of give a little bit of clarity to maybe insight into where I think we as a healthcare community can grow, okay? So let's say I have a young lady that comes in to see me, she's 36 years old. She's coming in, this is my first time meeting her. Um, and she's coming in for what's called a well woman exam, which is an annual exam where the OB GYN performs a head to toe exam, including a pap smear. Okay. She comes in and she says that, um, I'm a G zero, which means she's a gravida zero. She's never been pregnant in her life. Okay. Um, she doesn't have any complaints. Her periods are normal. We may talk about birth control. We talk about our periods. We talk about Being sexually active. She tells me she's not sexually active You know her vaginal health she says is normal. She's not having any vaginal discharge or any issues She's just really here for a pap smear. She wants her checkup. She wants to make sure everything is fine Her weight is normal. Her blood pressure is normal after the exam is done. She leaves Okay. And not to come back until next year. In my professional opinion, that's a miss. Okay. And that's a miss because we got information from her. She's 36 years old and she's a G zero. Okay. Now she didn't come in to talk about fertility, but I would argue that she deserved a conversation about fertility. Okay. yes. Um, and this is something I'm really passionate about. Um, you know, it's very, very clear in the literature that when it comes to fertility as a woman, our fertility declines after age 30. Okay. It doesn't matter if you're black, you're white, you're short, you're tall. It doesn't matter where you come from. Your fertility declines. most, most rapidly after age 30. Okay. And that's important for all of us to know men on the other hand, they make sperm until they die. I don't know what's up with that God. I don't know. But okay. But for us as women, this is important to talk about. So at every pap smear visit, I bring it up, right? If I ask you for your G's and your P's and I find out that you're a woman over age 30, and you're a G zero, the conversation will kind of go like this. Like I noticed that you've never been pregnant before. Um, is that by choice? Um, and a lot of women will say, Oh my goodness, I'm so glad you brought that up. That was on my mind. I just didn't want to bring it up, you know? And then I have some women that say that is by choice and I either don't desire children right now or I don't want children ever. I mean, I take care of a lot of patients that say I don't want children ever. So I think as a community, you know, as healthcare professionals and as a general community to all the listeners that's listening, I think it's important for us to recognize that when it comes to women, there's a group of women who are childless by choice and there's also a group of women that are childless not by choice, okay? The data says that about 20% of women between the ages 40 and 44 do not have children. And half of those women are childless, not by choice. Now that might be because of infertility, okay? They were unable to carry a pregnancy to term. That may be that they never met somebody in the timeframe that they wanted to meet. their partner and actually had children, that might mean that they made it to 44 and tried to have a child and found that they couldn't, that their what's called their ovarian reserve or how many future babies they have in their ovaries was diminished at that point. That could mean that they had breast cancer in their late 20s, early 30s and received chemotherapy, which destroyed a lot of the eggs in their ovaries. There's a lot of reasons. so much. to be childless, not by choice. And I think, you know, society, we have it wrong. We just assume that if we see a reproductive age woman that doesn't have children, that she didn't want children or she doesn't want children. Like we make these assumptions about people without knowing their testimony. So I personally believe as an OB-GYN that The fertility space shouldn't be separate from every other space. Talking about fertility shouldn't be separate from talking about birth control. It shouldn't be separate from talking about abortion. It shouldn't be separate from talking about, um, you're currently pregnant. Is this going to be your last pregnancy? Do you desire pregnancy in the future? I think, you know, fertility is important to talk about. that. Thank you for saying that because I think a lot of people needed to hear that. I know I needed to hear that before and the times that we've talked it's always encouraging to hear that. And so thank you for being mindful of those who probably feel unseen. I know for me, you know, I have fertility struggles. And at the age of 33, it's like you see, you have this idea of what womanhood means. A lot of times that comes with, you know, having a child. And so it's like, it can be isolating, it can be frustrating, it can be confusing to be childless, not by choice. And so I really appreciate how you have created that category. and bringing light to it and bringing attention to the people who are in that kind of marginalized group and Like I wanted to know if you You know since we've talked about this off offline you know you not having children as well being a care provider for people giving birth, like me, and not having children. How has it? Impacted how you navigate that space? So yeah, how have you personally been impacted by it? Yeah, that's a good question. And thanks for sharing that Imani. I think it's powerful for us to tell our stories because like you said, so many women think that they are alone and it's not just a feeling, the data says you're not alone. Okay, you're not alone. So it's important for us to create these spaces to have these conversations, even outside of the exam room. Okay. But for me personally, I've definitely been impacted. You know, there are often times where, you know, in the past a patient has come to see me for prenatal care and they would ask me how many children I have personally. You know. as though me being a mother qualifies me to be an OBGYN. And you know, that saddened me. I don't currently have children. And me personally, I've experienced pregnancy loss and it has really changed the way that I help women. you know, on that journey, you know, I can, I've delivered thousands of babies at this point in my career, but I will tell you, I more vividly remember the journeys of women that I've helped, you know, with pregnancy loss or deliver a stillbirth in the third trimester. Like those are, I will honestly say more ingrained in my brain than. the beautiful deliveries where the baby comes out and everybody's crying. And those are beautiful moments and those moments deserve to be celebrated. But there are many women who have struggled with miscarriages or deliveries of stillbirths. And it's very, very painful. It's very painful. And the grief, the loss, the confusion, you know, that's not foreign to me, even as a woman. So it's definitely impacted how I care for, how I counsel patients that I'm helping with that. And as a gynecologist that primarily practices gynecology care, I do still care for a lot of women who go through miscarriage, who go through pregnancy loss. So it is definitely a space that, and again, I feel like when we go through pregnancy losses, women, oftentimes I hear people say, you know, why did this happen to me? You know, we blame ourselves and you know, a lot of the education that I do in the office space is informing patients that 25% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage and they're shocked. Yeah, they're shocked to know that like 25%, that's a lot. Yes, it is a lot. So that means that mama, sister, friend, if you... start to ask the questions, many of us have experienced loss, pregnancy loss in some form. We're just not talking about it. So when it happens to us personally, it feels painstakingly. It just feels, it feels so challenging. It feels difficult. It feels heavy. It feels lonely. But I will say because of my own personal journey with pregnancy loss, you know, fertility struggles, I'm passionate about this. You know, this is also, you know, we talk about, especially in the black community, social justice. Well, guess what? This is a part of social justice. Reproductive justice is just as important and reproductive justice says that, you know, as women, especially women of color, that we have this human right to not only reproduce, okay, we have this human right to. raise the children that we do have in a safe environment. It also says that if we don't desire to have children, because remember, there's a lot of women who are childless by choice, then we need to talk about birth control, y'all. You know what I'm saying? So if you're that 36-year-old woman that I talked about, who's a G zero at her visit, who's going to see her OB-GYN, and you don't desire to have children in your lifetime. That's your right. That's between you and God. Okay. You don't owe anybody an explanation, but I would encourage that woman to have a conversation with our OBGYN about family planning. Do we need to do contraception? Do we need to do birth control? Because I have also been able to walk alongside women who have had to go the termination route and the abortion route. And what we fail to talk about is that also is associated with grief. Okay. that also is associated with loss. Okay, and it is equally important if you are a woman who does not desire children now or in her lifetime to make sure your life goals align with whatever treatment plan that is with your physician. yeah. That's, I love that, because that's caring for women well. It's not trying to control women, it's caring for them. Caring for us and allowing us to have the autonomy. That is our right as we make decisions for ourselves, but giving us all the options and walking us through. Yeah, I just. there's so much controversy. And I don't even say these days because it's been for decades about women's rights, women's rights and women's reproductive rights. Now we're even having controversy about the definition of woman. So, no, we won't really get into that today, but I'm very curious, like what is your hope for change in society? Because you're a change agent just in your role. That's how I see you and you also when I talk to you, I feel like you're a visionary. And so I really, I'm really curious, what is your, your hope for changing the society that we live in? You know, I think that, oh man, I've got a lot of thoughts about this, Winnie. Okay. I'll start with some statistics. Let's start there. And then maybe that, we'll get a little nerdy. So, the data says that over 85% of all OBGYNs in the country are women. Girl power. Okay. OB-GYNs also tend to, we're going to talk about brokenness here, okay, and our healthcare industry, which is broken in many ways. Okay. I don't know the percentage of midwives that are female, but I know many of them are. Okay. And then when we think about that and we compare even salaries of midwives, okay, of... OBGYNs of just women, healthcare professionals that care for women. Okay. Our salaries, how much we're paid is always lower than that of other specialties. Okay. Don't let me get into as a private practice owner. I also, okay, we got to talk about Medicare reimbursements. Okay. Medicare reimbursements for women's health has historically always been lower than other things. Okay. like a knee replacement, okay? Or you've got this mole in your dermatology office and the dermatologist takes it off. Those reimbursements a lot of times are a lot higher than the birth of a baby, okay? So we have to go back to the basics and what all of that reveals to me, and we're not even talking about social services at this point, being a single mother in this country with multiple children, with... with housing insecurity, our social services also are not good in our country. Okay. So what that tells me is that our country does not always value women and children. That's problem number one. Okay. Um, you know, where do I see, where is my hope? I mean, my hope is in Christ because it's really going to take, um, changemakers like yourself, um, and really radicals to really challenge the broken systems, right? And truly systemic oppression, systemic racism, injustices in this space. You know, I want to shout out to all the health care professionals that may be listening. And I want to encourage all of us, okay, that if you're taking care of patients on a daily basis, I'm going to guess that about 50% of them are women. OK? And if 50% of them are women, then that means you have the ability to make some form of impact. If you didn't know what a G and P was, you know now, right? And if you come across a woman who's in her 30s, that's a G0, meaning never have been pregnant. You know, if you're a physician, if you're a midwife, You know, if you're a nurse practitioner, if you're a physician assistant, you have all this authority to say, hey, like, have you been to your OB-GYN recently? You know, I think that's a loving way of encouraging women to make sure they're having these informed conversations about their fertility with their physician, okay? Whether or not they, again, they desire to be pregnant or they don't desire to be pregnant. We need to talk about this more. We do, primary care physicians, need to talk about this more. Okay. And guess what? You don't have to do it beyond your own expertise. Okay. You can just say, you know what? I think you should think about this. There is more qualified people than I, you know, that you can talk to. You know, so my vision is, is that not only women in the healthcare space care about this, but everybody cares about this. As a society, women and children, we matter, right? So everyone needs to be talking about this. My other hope, is that eventually employers and health insurance companies, oh, they be driving me crazy. Oh my goodness. My hope is that they would see our fertility as important as well. Fertility care is expensive. IVF is expensive. When I tell my patients it's about 15 to$20,000 per cycle. Yeah. People are thinking, where am I going to get that money from? And if your insurance company doesn't pay for fertility care, oftentimes you're taking out loans to freeze your eggs or to freeze embryos. And it's just cost prohibitive for many women. And I think it's time for health insurance companies to provide that. That should be basic healthcare. Okay. That should be basic healthcare. These employers also need to step up and provide that as a benefit. Right. 100% because it's dual sided. It's the employer chooses the health plans that are available to the employees so both parties need to get on board about how important it is and You know not put dollars over people Yeah, that's a You hit some nails on the head. Those are big, big hopes, but I like that you said, you know, your hope is in Jesus, because Jesus is the only one who can do those big things. These are big prayers, and he knows how to work people together to get it done. So that's, look, prayer request right here, prayer point. Oh. And prayer warriors, put it added to your list because we, you know, progress sometimes takes decades, you know? And, you know, I just want to be a part of a generation of believers who are unafraid. And I know that strength and that power only comes from God, you know? And I think that together as believers, we really can, we can come together, we can collaborate, we can use our voice, we can use our talents and skills to speak out against injustice and oppression. And a lot of the big companies, health insurance, big pharma, all of those organizations that are profiting off of these ideas are just, it's not a good thing. We need to... Our fertility, our womanhood, all of that is important. And if we go to work every day, this is not the 1920s, okay? Women work, okay? And if we work, then we deserve to have healthcare benefits that supports our hopes and dreams. We do. They can't just be one size fits all. The health care benefits for men are not going to be the same as for women. Let's let's work on that. Yeah, and I get frustrated because I felt like a lot of the issue with really pushing forward with women's rights or reproductive rights is that it starts to get quote unquote political. And it's sad because it shouldn't be political when you're just caring about people. But if we as individuals can push back not wanting to become too political, we could really see change. If we see it as basic human rights, basic needs, I do think that even just starting conversations could be the difference between change happening and change being stagnant. Absolutely. And I think, you know, talks about fertility and reproductive justice, they, it needs to be de-stigmatized, right? Like, what if, what if, you know, we're in holiday season, right? What if you went to Christmas dinner and the topic of conversation was fertility? Okay. What, you know, what if everybody went around and shared? You know, their journey with, with motherhood, with becoming a mother, not becoming a mother, you know, like, can we just de-stigmatize all of that? You know, can we talk about fertility in the church? Um, can we talk about fertility at work? You know, okay. Fertility in the church. Okay. I guess that means we got to get into this whole Roe V way stuff, but yes, it makes people uncomfortable. It does. But guess what? We're change makers. We actually are on earth until Jesus come back and before we leave this place, right? We have to deal with these issues. We can't be living in silos and that's, let's be real. This is why a lot of folks don't come to Christ because as believers we get in our own way and we're not being real. We're not talking about the real issues, things that are happening. Okay. Every single day. every single day. scared to deal with the controversial issues. Okay, and you know, folks are like, are y'all really real? Y'all just, we need to be able to love Jesus and deal with all of the sin issues and crap that's going on in the world. We need to be able to at least talk about it and give a response as believers in Christ. Yeah, Jesus did. He went right into the mess. So what makes us not be able to do that too? Yeah, yeah. And yeah, conversation starters. Let's just, starting with destigmatizing, let's just have talks and it will get easier and easier from there. Absolutely. So tell me, you know, we're in Atlanta. For those who are not in Atlanta that may not know, Atlanta is a very black city. DC is considered Chocolate City, but I would say Atlanta is probably the new Chocolate City in the sense that you just have this wealth of blackness, this variety of blackness, the myriad of blackness that you can see. in Atlanta. So I would love to hear some information about your experience and you know what is a major message that you would want to give to black women especially in Atlanta. Also specifically because Georgia has terrible, terrible statistics when it comes to maternal mortality, infant mortality, just access to care. I think our what is it our Medicaid? WIC situation has not been extended. There's just a great lack of support for women and children, like you already mentioned. So what's the message that you would give to black women? Um, so that that's, that's loaded Imani Oh, I have so much to say. Okay. So, um, no, that's a great question. Um, about 90% of my patients are black women. Okay. So I think I can speak from personal experience as a black woman, right. And also as a physician caring for, um, majority, um, African American women in my practice. Um, number one, we tend to normalize our pain. I don't know how many times I can say that. Um. speak on it. When I compare caring for my Caucasian female patients to my black female patients in Atlanta, I will say, generally speaking as African-American women, we are not forthcoming with our fears. We're not forthcoming with our pains, our suffering. Okay, and many of us suffer. And from pain, bleeding, fibroids, infertility for years before we actually say the words out of our mouth to a physician. I want to empower black women in Atlanta to know that there is help. Okay. And one thing I love about this city, honey, and why I'm not moving. Okay, I'm staying here is that there's so much black excellence in this city. There are so many black doctors in this city who love caring for people of color. Okay. And I want to empower black women. If you've had a bad experience with a healthcare professional, a physician that did not hear you, that did not listen to you, that made you feel embarrassed. that made you feel ashamed, that didn't provide you the space to ask the question or your question being answered, please seek a second opinion. I will tell you, I see so many patients coming to me for second opinions. And what amazes me the most is not what their previous physician said. but how long they were seeing the previous physician before they saw a second opinion. Let me tell you something, ladies. If you have commercial insurance, that means you're a consumer. Just like if you go to Ross and you go for some shoes and they don't have your shoes, you go to Macy's for a second opinion. Yeah. and you find some shoes. The same thing happens in the healthcare industry. Use your power. You have power as a consumer that when you're displeased with healthcare at one place, you can go ahead and take your insurance to another doctor and ask the same question and see if you get a different answer. Yeah. so I want to empower the women that are listening to this is, and many of us have had terrible experiences with healthcare professionals, okay? Historically, we can go all the way back to Tuskegee. Like we generally as a community are more mistrusting of the healthcare community because of what has been done historically. But I'm here to tell you that There are great doctors out there who want to take care of you, who want to listen to you, who care about you, who care about your future children or lack thereof. Okay. And we're here to help. We're here to support you. I also want to tell women if you're struggling with infertility and you have a diagnosis, there's grief that comes with that. Find your people, find your community, because yes, it is, it does feel lonely. Okay. And I personally encourage the patients that I'm treating for infertility to, while they're seeing me also see cognitive behavioral therapy, get a therapist. Okay. And the church, you know, a lot of churches, we just say, Oh, just pray about it. You can pray about it and you can have a therapist, honey. Okay. That's important. There are even physician coaching programs out there now for women who are childless, not by choice. Okay. specifically that category of women, there are physician coaching programs. So outside of having your girls at church, outside of having your circle, having your therapist, there are coaching programs where you could get a one-on-one physician to speak directly to you and help walk you through and guide you through some of this angst associated with being a woman whose child is not by choice, okay? And the last thing I want to say as a woman that has personally experienced pregnancy loss, we're human, right? So I think it's important for women to recognize their triggers. You know, mother's day may be a trigger for you. If you've experienced pregnancy loss or if your child is not by choice, you know, birthday parties may be a trigger. Okay. Even, you know, for some women who've gone through IVF and, and had failed cycles, even needles may be a trigger for you. If that's the situation, recognize it, call it what it is, okay? And give yourself grace because you're human. It's likely you're going to be triggered at some point. Be kind to yourself. Okay. You're not alone in this. We are here to help you. You dropped several bombs. I'm out. I almost don't even know where to comment. I just, I'm gonna say wow, correct. Yes, ditto. I agree, everything. Thank you for that. I feel, I feel seen from what you said and I also feel like so many women that listen to this will feel seen and motivated to kind of take action. If not taking action, at least. going to prayer and praying about these things. It's just, it's a lot, it is a lot. So with it being a lot though, because you've said a lot of things, a lot of heavy things really. I can only imagine what walking through the day to day is like for you. And so I'm just curious. to know, because I know that God has been doing amazing things for you and in your life, but how has God cared for you well in the midst of your journey as an OB-GYN, specifically GYN with private practice? What are the things that you hold dearly to you because you know God is caring for you well? Yeah, and we kind of talked about this offline before we started recording, but I really feel like God is just, he's been so good and so gracious. And the best part of my day is being able to provide some clarity and healing to women who are suffering. And it's... It's all God, right? Like it's God using me to, to care and comfort women. And a lot of times I feel like being able to give an answer, right? And being able to name things. Although diagnoses can be scary at the end of the day, like you said, there is power in a name, right? And sometimes we are just looking for answers. And that's the best part of my day when I'm able to, um, by the grace of God, lessen a woman's fears, you know, and oh my goodness, I've done so much praying, you know, before opening Mountains Women's Center and obviously afterwards and, you know, trusting God on this journey. Um, the biggest compliments I feel like have been you know, when patients invite their mothers to see me and their sisters and they're bringing their daughters and I'm seeing 11 and 12 year olds and you know, I'm seeing the whole family and I'm caring for the whole family. I'm caring for all the sisters. You know what I'm saying? And that just brings me so much joy. And when patients come back in, it's like, Hey doc, I feel so much better after X, Y, and Z. And I can point back to Christ and say, you know what? He did it. It's by his grace, right? That we have this medication. It's by his grace that I was able to get all them fibroids out. You know what I'm saying? It is by his grace. And you know, God is also such a provider and I really feel like I'm in my purpose. You know, this is my jam. You know, I leave the office with more energy than I came in. And it's because I'm in my purpose. I've never felt this so strongly in my life. And I give it all back to God. Thank you for this vision. Thank you for providing the resources. Thank you for providing the team. Thank you for bringing the patients that I feel like you've called me to serve and care for. Thank you God that you're being glorified. And thank you Lord that, you know, I may not be able to change the whole healthcare industry, but God has purposed me to care for groups of people, for this particular community. This is my niche. This is my expertise. I'm cool with it. You know, I'm cool with it. And, um, through that and through that energy, through how God has encouraged me, I'm able to give that to my patients. And I will tell you, I'm not God. Sometimes the answer to my patients is I don't know. Right. And sometimes the conversation is I don't know what's going on. We've done this test. We've done this surgery. We tried this and we've tried this at this point. We need to pray and trust God and I'm willing to walk with you through it. Right. Um, I don't have all the answers because I don't have to because God is sovereign. Right. He's sovereign, even in our pain, he's sovereign, even in our disappointment. Okay. And he's in control. Even when we feel like the world is just chaotic around us. And I often feel like that as a black woman in this country, that there's just mad chaos. You can turn on the TV if you don't believe me. Right. Just turn on the news. 100%. But that's one of the things that is encouraging about having conversations with women who are Christians and also in the birth space, because that's where we get our encouragement from. We encourage each other in the Lord, because it can get so grim. It can get so just overwhelming. Mm-hmm. And so it is always a pleasure and truly a blessing to have conversations that, yeah, we talk about the frustrations and everything, but we also talk about our hope and where we are getting our encouragement from and how we continue to push and we just move in the way that God moves us to do so. I love to hear that you are in your purpose because that is like, I think that's goals. to be able to work and feel that you are working for the Lord. You're not just working for a paycheck. You're not just waiting until the weekend, or well, y'all kind of don't get weekends the same way, but you're not just waiting for your next day off, although you do, I'm sure, enjoy those a lot, that the Lord really sustains you through your days and also empowers you to do the work that you're doing, which is, like I said, God's hands and feet in this society, especially in Atlanta. So we're coming to the end of our time. I can't believe it. I feel like that time went by so fast. Such good nuggets. I think I'm gonna be thinking about this conversation for at least another week. But I wanted to give you opportunity to just go ahead and plug your... private practice, how people can get in touch with you if they have questions, maybe they want a recommendation for someone that might be in another area since they might not be local to Atlanta. Give us your information. Absolutely. So again, I'm Dr. Amber Glenn, board certified OBGYN in Metro Atlanta. I am the owner and sole physician at Mountains Women's Center. You are welcome to check us out at www.mountainsobgyn.com. As the listeners probably already know, I love to talk and I love to educate. So if you check out the website, there's a blog there. I have a lot of cool freebies on the website about various topics, PCOS, endometriosis, fertility, fibroids, vaginal infections, all of that stuff. So check out the website, check out the blog, and come give us a visit if you're in the area. We would love to see you. We would love to talk to you. As a millennial physician, I am very pro-technology. and pro 2023. So guess what honey, we have evening appointments, we have weekend appointments, and you can book your appointment online and you can text for your appointment. No need to hold on the phone listening to the spa music honey, okay? Come check us out, we love to care for you. Yes, y'all check out Dr. Glenn, because I'm sure you'll be very happy to just get, you know, those little questions that you've been having over the years, those little, maybe odors, maybe pains that you've been too nervous to get addressed, or maybe you've gone to a doctor that isn't addressing it right. Check out Dr. Glenn. Well, thank you so much, girl, for being on this podcast episode with me. This is Imani with ConfidentCare Birth Co. Signing off, we will see you at the next episode. Bye. Okay, I'm hitting stop now. So I'm not sure if that will kick us off or what it will do, but I'm gonna hit stop. Okay.